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Author Topic:  Where Did I Go Wrong?  (Read 5992 times)

Offline Count Pierre

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Where Did I Go Wrong?
« on: September 15, 2014, 14:34 »
I Went back to the beach with the SPP again, trying out different settings, & looking for that low tone.
Tones still all high, with plenty of pull tabs & crown seals, but nothing worthwhile.
I decided to bury a $2 coin in the damp sand at about 13-14" (Full TRX + short end)
GB off, Gain at 10 o'clock, barely audible threshold, frequency at 12 o'clock.
NO SIGNAL at all from the $2 coin! (Should have been a high beep).
Shit, I've lost it. 
I tried different combinations of settings, etc., & still no target sound.
Knowing just where I buried the coin, it still took me about 10 minutes to find it with the scoop.
I thought PI detectors went extremely deep, but this really surprised me.
What the hell did I do wrong??

CP

Linkback: http://forum.kimbucktwo.com/index.php?topic=25119.0
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling
If I can't handle it, I'll go & have a few beers, or a red wine....or both.... & go from there!

Offline tailofdog

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2014, 15:46 »
I Went back to the beach with the SPP again, trying out different settings, & looking for that low tone.
Tones still all high, with plenty of pull tabs & crown seals, but nothing worthwhile.
I decided to bury a $2 coin in the damp sand at about 13-14" (Full TRX + short end)
GB off, Gain at 10 o'clock, barely audible threshold, frequency at 12 o'clock.
NO SIGNAL at all from the $2 coin! (Should have been a high beep).
Shit, I've lost it.
I tried different combinations of settings, etc., & still no target sound.
Knowing just where I buried the coin, it still took me about 10 minutes to find it with the scoop.
I thought PI detectors went extremely deep, but this really surprised me.
What the hell did I do wrong??
Your not done yet!
You will come right :o

CP
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Tesoro Silver Umax & Vibra Quatic 2 Pinpointer
  • Oldest find: 1921 6pence
WANDERING IN A FOG BUT WITH A GLIMPSE OF A GOLD COIN

Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2014, 19:03 »
I need some guidance, tod, & I hope you are right, too.
I've never used a PI before, & don't really know what to expect.
Was the coin too deep for the SPP?
Is there some metal in the $2 coin that makes it null over a certain depth?
Were my settings wrong?
I need some feedback from PI users.

CP
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline ANT1967

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2014, 19:14 »
Gday Pete ,
          Mate Im sorry Im not familiar with any Whites gear
          Perhaps send a PM to Ivanll ? he may be able to help
          
  • Detector(s) owned/used: - Owned - Sovereign GT, - Own - GPX5000 & CTX3030
  • Oldest find: 1857 Gothic Florin , 1858 Holloway Token , Gold Nuggets .
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Offline goldnugget01

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2014, 19:19 »
Not good CP.  I'm looking at the manual for the machine as I type, there doesn't seem to be too much that could be going wrong from a users end except for maybe the ground balance. 
I noticed that in the manual it does recommend that when using it for goldfields or beaches that you should use ground balance except in dry white sand...may be a factor? Also says that 'if the machine can be ground balanced it must be ground balanced' (quoted from the manual).  I don't know, wish I could be more help.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: ML Explorer SE - std DD coil & ML x-terra 70. Coils: std concentric, 10x5 18.75DD, 15" 18.75DD
  • Oldest find: 1912 threepence...make that an 1899 Penny..make that an 1861? German 4 Pfennige. A suss looking (but confirmed) 1830-1837 half crown
Every day is 'Clean Up Australia Day' when you go detecting.

Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2014, 19:47 »
Unable to ground balance, GN, so I just left it on to get the two tones. 
The SPP ran quiet & smooth, even with the gain up high.
Maybe the depth just isn't there on our coins??
Maybe the SPP needs to go to the cupboard for a while?
Maybe I should just stick to the E-Trac for now, until I get keen again.....  :(
Maybe I expected too much?    :o

CP
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline goldnugget01

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2014, 19:51 »
It may be clutching at straws but was the coin sitting flat or on its end?  I know even with the Explorer it can make a big difference as to whether it will pick it up or not....just throwing it out there.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: ML Explorer SE - std DD coil & ML x-terra 70. Coils: std concentric, 10x5 18.75DD, 15" 18.75DD
  • Oldest find: 1912 threepence...make that an 1899 Penny..make that an 1861? German 4 Pfennige. A suss looking (but confirmed) 1830-1837 half crown

Offline lazyaussie

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2014, 20:15 »
how deep were ya digging the low conductivity targets at ??
I've found with my PI's they were great at getting deep lower conduct 5c - 50c + gold but I found a lot less deep high conduct $1-$2 than with my vlf-bbs detector, so maybe do a little testing on the dry sand adjusting the gain to see how it changes the depth & targets types as it can make a huge difference & try running it with the threshold "just" silent for a while as the hum can hide small super deep signals.
hope this helps
lazy   
  • Detector(s) owned/used: garrett AT pro, garrett ace 250, garrett pro pointer, garrett sea hunter, whites dual field,
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Offline lazyaussie

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2014, 20:20 »
+ electrical interference can make a big difference in how PI's work so try/test a few spots, & low & slow coil techniques are more important with PI's   ;)
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 20:27 by lazyaussie »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: garrett AT pro, garrett ace 250, garrett pro pointer, garrett sea hunter, whites dual field,
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Offline scratchinaround

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2014, 20:21 »
                  Hi  CP.  mbe  a talk  with  the White's  dealer.. the prob. does;nt seem right.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: used bh discovery 33oo, ace350,m/l 305. now tesoro compadre
  • Oldest find: 1923 sa football members badge,1902/5/6dog reg tags.1910 bottle,66 round 50 cent.1912 farthing.1927h/penny1857/81penny
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Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2014, 21:17 »
Coin flat, no elec interference.
Thanks, lazy. I'll try your suggestions. It sounds like everything is normal.....(bugger)
I'll be really pee'd off if I can't pick up a gold ring at 10", though   ;D .

CP
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline aussiedigger

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2014, 04:55 »
Coin flat, no elec interference.
Thanks, lazy. I'll try your suggestions. It sounds like everything is normal.....(bugger)
I'll be really pee'd off if I can't pick up a gold ring at 10", though   ;D .

CP


CP

I saw one used out in the Goldfields on highly mineralized ground  (HOT ) over 2 days by a proficient detectorist I hunt with.

To say I was unimpressed would be an understatement .

Sorry :'(




ad...

« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 04:59 by aussiedigger »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: GPZ 7000 / SDC 2300 CTX 3030 / Excalibur 11 with Remote Pinpoint modifications on handle and able to swap headphone capability Using Skullies and Garrett Amphibians All thanks to Joe (Oldbeechnut) /
  • Oldest find: 1817 George III Sixpence (Bulls Head) / Gold nuggets
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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2014, 05:09 »
Unable to ground balance, GN, so I just left it on to get the two tones.
The SPP ran quiet & smooth, even with the gain up high.
Maybe the depth just isn't there on our coins??
Maybe the SPP needs to go to the cupboard for a while?
Maybe I should just stick to the E-Trac for now, until I get keen again.....  :(
Maybe I expected too much?    :o

CP

When i asked the question on Findmall they, said the pulse setting
on the SPP was made for depth . Look it up its a good post.
I had a Dual Field and Sand Shark both deep. Overwhelming in heavy iron actually :o
I had an interest in it due to Tones as well as the ATX.
I will not retire till next year so, my new beach machine is not an urgent Priority. Need a new hip and, shoulder too. ???
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Tesoro Silver Umax & Vibra Quatic 2 Pinpointer
  • Oldest find: 1921 6pence

Offline tailofdog

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2014, 05:15 »


CP


I saw one used out in the Goldfields on highly mineralized ground  (HOT ) over 2 days by a proficient detectorist I hunt with.


To say I was unimpressed would be an understatement .


Sorry :'(




ad...


Not something he is looking to hear but, its always better to know the Truth!
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Tesoro Silver Umax & Vibra Quatic 2 Pinpointer
  • Oldest find: 1921 6pence

Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2014, 07:09 »
aussie, compared  to a 5000 or ATX or SDC, I'm not surprised that you weren't impressed with the SPP. Just a slight difference in price as well as performance.
Besides that,  I didn't buy it for gold hunting, so that aspect doesn't worry me at all. ;)

tod, it was the Findmall comments that finally convinced me to go with the SPP. That's one of the reasons I think it is somehow user error in some way. ::)

I'm about to head out now to do some more test.
 "Have tape measure, coins & gold & silver rings on string ...will test"! ;)
 
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 07:12 by Count Pierre »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline aussiedigger

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2014, 07:48 »
aussie, compared  to a 5000 or ATX or SDC, I'm not surprised that you weren't impressed with the SPP. Just a slight difference in price as well as performance.
Besides that,  I didn't buy it for gold hunting, so that aspect doesn't worry me at all. ;)

tod, it was the Findmall comments that finally convinced me to go with the SPP. That's one of the reasons I think it is somehow user error in some way. ::)

I'm about to head out now to do some more test.
 "Have tape measure, coins & gold & silver rings on string ...will test"! ;)
 

I realize that Pete :) just throwing my hat in the ring. I'd be very interested to see how it preforms on black mineralized beach sand  and how deep it punches thought?

Forgot to mention that the small razor back coil was being tested at the time out there.



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  • Detector(s) owned/used: GPZ 7000 / SDC 2300 CTX 3030 / Excalibur 11 with Remote Pinpoint modifications on handle and able to swap headphone capability Using Skullies and Garrett Amphibians All thanks to Joe (Oldbeechnut) /
  • Oldest find: 1817 George III Sixpence (Bulls Head) / Gold nuggets

Offline Robo

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2014, 09:58 »
I tried my SPP on the gold coast beach for a couple of hours and was happy with it,  I found it better to use than my other PI machine a Sea Hunter M11, 
I used the standard 12" coil, GB off sensitivity full and it had a smooth threshold, walking along wet sand with the water running in and out over the coil made no difference,  I dug a number of deep crusty 5c and $2 coins and a couple of hair pins etc.
Gold hunting on hot ground is another story, I'm having lots of trouble getting it to GB and run smooth but still have some depth, it's possible I'm over driving it having the gain to high trying to detect very small gold of a 1/2 gram or less on hot ground which is really asking to much of the SPP, unfortunately this is what seems to be left in the ground of this particular gold area.

  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites SPP - Whites V3i - Sea hunter - AT Pro - Ace 350 - Whites Coin Master - Unknown Brand

Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2014, 10:38 »
Just back from my test of the SPP.
I used a gents' gold, & silver rings & buried them 10" in the dry to damp beach sand.
I took both the SPP & my E-trac. 
SPP: ...with gain at around 10 o'clock, would not pick up either ring.(made no difference if GB was on or off)
 ......... with the Gain at around 3 o'clock, it picked up the gold ring, but not the silver one.
But then having the gain  so high makes the SPP too noisy when swinging the coil.
E-TRAC:....picked up BOTH rings with no trouble at all. The signal was a bit jumpy, but numbers that I would normally dig.

So, there you have it. Maybe it's our beach conditions here, but beach hunting is the reason I bought the SPP.

To say I am disappointed would be an understatement.

I am about to ring Dean at Goldsearch, to give him my results.

CP
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline goldnugget01

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2014, 11:17 »
Maybe try another one in case its the machine if he'll come to the party.  Sorry to read about the problems you've been having.  Its a bit of a surprise, I thought maybe with the grey and black sand base beaches here it would run well.


Edited due to Autocorrect correction :-X
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 12:00 by goldnugget01 »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: ML Explorer SE - std DD coil & ML x-terra 70. Coils: std concentric, 10x5 18.75DD, 15" 18.75DD
  • Oldest find: 1912 threepence...make that an 1899 Penny..make that an 1861? German 4 Pfennige. A suss looking (but confirmed) 1830-1837 half crown

Offline Robo

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2014, 11:30 »
The gain scale is 1 to 10, at the 10 o'clock position it's very low gain at level 3, I'm surprised it picked up the gold ring at that low a level and why the gold but not the silver,
gain at the 3 o'clock position is level 8, I ran mine flat out at level 10 on the gold coast without any noise when swinging the coil.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites SPP - Whites V3i - Sea hunter - AT Pro - Ace 350 - Whites Coin Master - Unknown Brand

Offline Robo

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2014, 14:16 »
I just got off the phone with a very experienced whites user and he gave me the following information to get the best gain and depth when using the SPP.
He mentioned how some detectors like the Minelab 2300 and ATX go into a self test when you turn them on, after a little time they give a couple of beeps to say that's done then you GB and start detecting, on the SPP you need to do it manually before you GB by using the Frequency knob, he said it's critical to do it if you want the SPP to run at it's best,
With the detector on it's marked default settings as a start point have the coil raised to waist height and move it slowly around in a full 360° turn, adjust the Frequency knob to a level with no noise with the highest possible Gain, after getting that right do a GB, you then should be able to have the gain up higher than you did before and swing the coil without noise until you hit on those deeper targets, he added to swing VERY slow.
Worth a try.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites SPP - Whites V3i - Sea hunter - AT Pro - Ace 350 - Whites Coin Master - Unknown Brand

Offline Count Pierre

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2014, 14:31 »
Nah, I'm over it now Robo.
If doing the 360 caper with the frequency is so critical, why isn't it mentioned in the SPP manual?
I feel now that I won't know if it is working ok or not. Even at its best, I have doubts it would equal the E-Trac, & I am looking for something better than the ET for the beach, in a PI detector.
I'll look for something else for the beach. This time I won't be in a hurry.  ;)
Incidently, I go back a long way with Whites, starting with the 6000D & my DFX is probably the best Whites I have owned. 

CP
« Last Edit: September 16, 2014, 14:34 by Count Pierre »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites DFX + 5 Coils (retired)- ML Safari with RNB Battery,Whites MX5
  • Oldest find: 1817 George 3 Shilling

Offline Robo

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2014, 15:06 »
I won't give up so easy, If you spot somebody in the bush turning around and around with the coil in the air it will be me  ;D I have a feeling tuning that freq first before GB is going to help because the other morning on the hot ground at the gold area I had it running sweet as with some high gain on and I noticed I had that freq knob turned way off center but never gave it any thought I must have just knocked it with my hand to a good setting without knowing, the next time I detected on the same ground I had the freq set at it's default and the machine was not good again but I did not think of changing that setting.

I also go way back with whites starting with the 5000 /D
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Whites SPP - Whites V3i - Sea hunter - AT Pro - Ace 350 - Whites Coin Master - Unknown Brand

Offline goldnugget01

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2014, 15:29 »
When I was looking at a PI for the beach I was thinking and leaning heavily towards the Surfmaster PI which is probably around the same price of your machine and totally waterproof.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: ML Explorer SE - std DD coil & ML x-terra 70. Coils: std concentric, 10x5 18.75DD, 15" 18.75DD
  • Oldest find: 1912 threepence...make that an 1899 Penny..make that an 1861? German 4 Pfennige. A suss looking (but confirmed) 1830-1837 half crown

Offline Adrian ss

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Re: Where Did I Go Wrong?
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2014, 17:29 »
I believe the SPP delay timing is optimised for gold in which case it will be weak on aussie one and two dollar coins.
A bit like the Infinium where to get the best response from these coins the disc/timing has to cranked up to around 2
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Sea Hunter MK II, Safari, SDC 2300, 6000DI SL ,BHID,ML Stirling,GS 15000, Sov XS, Lobo ST, relic M 7,Fisher 553D & 555D,CX4PI,Infinium,Spectrum XLT.6000D,6000DI S 3, Gold Spear, Scorpion, CXII & CXIII,Pro Scan,Some Home Built VLFs & PIs and some others.
  • Oldest find: 1797 Cartwheel penny

 

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