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Author Topic:  NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out  (Read 1390 times)

Offline Detectist

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NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« on: December 18, 2017, 17:46 »
Here is a link to the new NPWS Fossicking Policy

http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/topics/parks-reserves-and-protected-areas/park-policies/fossicking

What a joke.

Only one good part that I can see.



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Offline 14FNX

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2017, 17:55 »
I had a read the link and have questions:

What is the context of this publication?
How does this affect my fossicking licence?
What is the definition of a historical site?

I asked these questions at the bottom of the publication and await feedback from the publishers.
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Offline Sambo

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2017, 17:56 »
Ouch :'( :'( :'(.
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Offline Marty

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2017, 19:24 »
They pushed so many of us for years doing the right thing , into ""who gives'a"" 
They will need cameras in each and every park from now on to police it 
I for one em looking forward to collecting a few cameras from now on , Disgusting is what it is 

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Offline Adrian ss

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2017, 08:39 »
Just purchase a NSW Fossicking Permit from the Forestry Corporation Of NSW.
Choose where you want to fossick Pay 27 dollars for 12 months and obey the rules.

http://www.forestrycorporation.com.au/visit/activities/fossicking
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 08:52 by Adrian ss »
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Offline ohb1

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2017, 08:49 »
One of the conditions for gaining an acceptance to fossick...

" Requiring fossickers to ensure that ALL their equipment is STERILISED before OR exiting a park to prevent the spread of pathogens" (Emphasis added)
Who comes up with the wording for these laws?????  sterilised .... before OR exiting a park?????

Equipment......Detector, gloves, probe, digging implement, yes, I can appreciate not carrying in thorns and weeds...but......what about the very shoes on your feet (more likely to carry pathogens than most equipment.....)...and I would like to know how one is supposed to "sterilise" these items when exiting the park...is a wash in the local creek (which flows outside the boundaries of the park) acceptable?....  

Is the wording  correct in implying sterilisation only needs to be performed once,...either before entering a park or before exiting a park ?

Paper politicians need to get a life!....or at least know how to word a document that is not ambiguous!

ohb1
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 09:06 by ohb1 »
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Offline bicter

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2017, 09:38 »
Hmmmm coin and relic hunting has once more flown under their radar....... apart from sites of significance.
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Offline Adrian ss

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2017, 09:51 »
Well I guess the sterilisation bit is plain stupid and would not and could not stand in a court of law.
If it could then all of the creatures of the bush and that includes us because the open land is our natural habitat would have to be sterilised daily. Every rock that has been peed or crapped on by a sick or even healthy animal that fell down a waterfall or was carried down stream in a flood would have to be sterilised before it moved, every animal that died of unnatural causes that contaminated the ground and rivers would have to be collected and burnt. The list can go on and on.

What kind of kit does a ranger carry with them that will test fossicking equip for sterility???
Even hospitals are not sterile.

I have not read the bit you have mentioned but clearly the jerk off who decided to include that into the rules is an ignoramus and it is unfortunate that these kind can access our dept of environment etc.  
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 09:53 by Adrian ss »
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Offline ohb1

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2017, 14:52 »
Hmmmm coin and relic hunting has once more flown under their radar....... apart from sites of significance.
Not quite..the opening paragraph says "Fossicking involves disturbing soil, rocks and vegetation to find and remove minerals, gemstones and historical objects." ...technically, coin and relics could be classed as "historical objects"  

....again I refer to the inept paper politicians.........the wording should read "Fossicking involves disturbing soil, rocks and/or vegetation to find and/or remove minerals, gemstones and/or historical objects."...Someone needs to go back to school!

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Offline bicter

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 16:26 »
Not quite..the opening paragraph says "Fossicking involves disturbing soil, rocks and vegetation to find and remove minerals, gemstones and historical objects." ...technically, coin and relics could be classed as "historical objects"  

....again I refer to the inept paper politicians.........the wording should read "Fossicking involves disturbing soil, rocks and/or vegetation to find and/or remove minerals, gemstones and/or historical objects."...Someone needs to go back to school!

ohb1
Thanks Ohb,
Very much agree with your thoughts
Obviously my proof reading isn't up to par 😀 
Now I/we/someone needs to determine if and where they may have defined what an historical object may be.
Is a $1 coin dropped yesterday an historical object? 
Is a gold ring dropped 2 years ago considered to be historical?
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Offline Rwork

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 18:00 »
The new Heritage act came into law in November. I don’t remember if that was for Vic or Australia wide. It should be in Resources somewhere.
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Offline 14FNX

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 19:40 »
I doubt that politicians have had much to do with the formulation of the new guidelines/rules.  I also doubt that the poor buggers who have to police them have had much of a say.  My guess, and it is a guess, is that the ‘shiny bums’ are up to their normal bureaucratic antics of knowing what is best for John and Joan Citizen and we have to lump it or leave. I worry that the unwashed, bearded and hairy armpitted verdants have had too much of a say in much of what happens beyond the concrete jungle. Oh well. ‘Come the Revolution’.

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Offline Adrian ss

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 20:32 »
Glad this topic was raised because I discovered that my NSW Permit had expired. All fixed.
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Offline AngerManagement

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 20:39 »
A total mismanagement...  As per usual the states all have their own policy and it is not always in agreement...

What they do is refrence some and or parts of the Department of the Environment is an Australian Government department  which is responsible for administering the Key National Heritage law the Environment Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act 1999.

http://www.environment.gov.au/heritage/laws

Thus you have a National base line,  and from there teh States do their own thing and can go tougher on aspects or even include stuff; but can not ignore or breach the National requirements.. 


https://www.heritage.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0025/78352/Heritage-Act-2017_FINAL-WEB.pdf
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Offline Detectist

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 21:04 »
While I still think the policy is a joke it is an advance on where we were before.  My cynicism is based on the in your face statements that there will only be limited opportunities and the reasons being "... because it can pose unacceptable risks to natural and cultural heritage."  Those concerns could have been addressed better in my opinion.  Anyway, a few draft park management plans are being considered and I hope to be pleasantly surprised.  I need to ascertain the opportunities afforded in land that has yet to have a plan of management near to where I live.

I congratulate NAPFA on getting a mention - that is a sign of good faith by NPWS - to some extent, as it is really just early notice of a new or to-be-revised plan.  I think one benefit in the quagmire of restrictions is para 12 and particularly the statements "... Most proposed fossicking will require a conservation risk assessment, which is a low level of environmental assessment. For proposed fossicking that is likely to have a significant impact, a review of environmental factors may be required. To make this easier, a generic conservation risk assessment or a review of environmental factors can be provided by the local NPWS office to reduce complexity, time and resources."

I agree with most comments above about "sterilisation".  I can understand the concern but ...  I would have thought car tyres, boots and horses hooves would also be captured.  
I'd carry some antibacterial wipes for the coils and other equipment.  That should satisfy that requirement I would expect.

Adrian - I have my Forest Permit and obey the rules but gees it'd be nice to have some other avenues in NPs and State Conservation areas near Canberra.


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Offline bicter

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2017, 21:16 »
sterilize


[ster-uh-lahyz] 
Spell Syllables

  • Word Origin

verb (used with object)sterilized, sterilizing.
1.
to destroy microorganisms in or on, usually by bringingto a high temperature with steam, dry heat, or boilingliquid.
2.
to destroy the ability of (a person or animal) to reproduceby removing the sex organs or inhibiting their functions.
3.
to make (land) barren or unproductive.
4.
Informal. to delete or remove anything comprising ordamaging from:
to sterilize a government document before releasing it tothe press.
5.
Informal. to isolate or completely protect from unwanted,unauthorized, or unwholesome activities, attitudes,influences, etc.:
You can't sterilize children against violence.
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Offline Detectist

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2017, 21:19 »
I've been thinking about coins in such sites - I'd be surprised that a coin found in these areas has any historical significance.  They were meant to be commonly available (with labour and markets and such) and many examples would exist in museums etc.  I suppose a "trove" would be seen differently and, at a real stretch, also perhaps of non-English coins eg Chinese gold coins?  I'm only guessing though. 

I suspect also that jewellery would be regarded similarly - unless there was a real reason for the item to have significance eg the lost royal crown of King Muck! 
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Offline Willo

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #17 on: December 20, 2017, 21:53 »
  • By being conjunctive, the definition is narrow and any activity that fails to meet all the criteria is not within scope, nicely drafted I say! 
Ian
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Offline 14FNX

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2017, 22:37 »
I guess the fact is that, those of us who comply with the rules, will continue to do so. And, those who don’t, will also continue to break them.  The more rules there are to be broken, the greater the chance of being caught when breaking same.

Having said that, we still need a revolution.  Viva Che!
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Offline Adrian ss

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #19 on: December 20, 2017, 23:35 »
While I still think the policy is a joke it is an advance on where we were before.  My cynicism is based on the in your face statements that there will only be limited opportunities and the reasons being "... because it can pose unacceptable risks to natural and cultural heritage."  Those concerns could have been addressed better in my opinion.  Anyway, a few draft park management plans are being considered and I hope to be pleasantly surprised.  I need to ascertain the opportunities afforded in land that has yet to have a plan of management near to where I live.

I congratulate NAPFA on getting a mention - that is a sign of good faith by NPWS - to some extent, as it is really just early notice of a new or to-be-revised plan.  I think one benefit in the quagmire of restrictions is para 12 and particularly the statements "... Most proposed fossicking will require a conservation risk assessment, which is a low level of environmental assessment. For proposed fossicking that is likely to have a significant impact, a review of environmental factors may be required. To make this easier, a generic conservation risk assessment or a review of environmental factors can be provided by the local NPWS office to reduce complexity, time and resources."

I agree with most comments above about "sterilisation".  I can understand the concern but ...  I would have thought car tyres, boots and horses hooves would also be captured.  
I'd carry some antibacterial wipes for the coils and other equipment.  That should satisfy that requirement I would expect.

Adrian - I have my Forest Permit and obey the rules but gees it'd be nice to have some other avenues in NPs and State Conservation areas near Canberra.
The ACT is a sterile zone.
No life or excitement permitted here. You cannot fart, pee, cough, spit, use bad language, or move an Earth Rock without breaking a law of some kind. 
Classic example of the police stupidity here:
My daughter was driving along Drakeford drive one dark and stormy night in peak traffic. Pissing down rain lights reflecting off the road everywhere, you could not tell if your headlights were even working due to the wet road reflections of all the tail light n headlights.
   Anyway this bright spark cop pulls her over and says. Your left tail light is out and fines her 186 dollars on the spot. How the hell could she know the bloody light was out?? She should have got an advisory warning to get it fixed ASAP...and even after that it could have blown the next day again without her knowledge while driving.
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Offline Dutchy (Jarhead)

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2017, 07:35 »
Adrian, sorry to get off subject but tell your daughter to write a reply to get the ticket cancelled.  If not at least make a formal complaint. PM me and I can discuss.

Don't really think its stupidity on the police because a traffic infringement was written for a traffic violation. They would not have been stupid if they had given a warning instead your implying? I'm not defending that particular officer but their actions don't classify them as dumb or stupid.

You can use heaps of bad language here as the courts deem it is not offensive to swear in public.
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Offline Dutchy (Jarhead)

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2017, 07:42 »
I guess the fact is that, those of us who comply with the rules, will continue to do so. And, those who don’t, will also continue to break them.  The more rules there are to be broken, the greater the chance of being caught when breaking same.

Having said that, we still need a revolution.  Viva Che!

14NX - I lived in Che's revolution ' paradise' for a year (Cuba).  If you think that way of life is better you might want to re think your revolution.  We have it made here and very lucky in our free rights.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 07:44 by Dutchy (Jarhead) »
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Offline Adrian ss

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #22 on: December 21, 2017, 08:09 »
Adrian, sorry to get off subject but tell your daughter to write a reply to get the ticket cancelled.  If not at least make a formal complaint. PM me and I can discuss.

Don't really think its stupidity on the police because a traffic infringement was written for a traffic violation. They would not have been stupid if they had given a warning instead your implying? I'm not defending that particular officer but their actions don't classify them as dumb or stupid.

You can use heaps of bad language here as the courts deem it is not offensive to swear in public.
It was a tail light for shite  sake, they can blow at any time and the driver will not know about it. I reckon I spot at least a dozen cars per day with one or more tail or stop lights out and if I manage to get up along side I will try to let them know about it. There sure as hell is no reason to fine a driver for a light globe being blow other than for revenue or Brownie points raising. This Officer was and always will be stupid. Can't help the way you are borne.
It was a female and for sure a rookie.
She got my daughter to wind her window down and yes you guessed it, she (The officer) stuck her head through the window almost into my daughters face and started having a go at her. (No exp cop would ever do that) Lucky my daughter is a normal person and was not some DH cranked up on ice, otherwise that officer may have found the window wound up on her neck and being dragged down the road.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2017, 08:10 by Adrian ss »
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Offline 14FNX

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #23 on: December 21, 2017, 09:08 »
14NX - I lived in Che's revolution ' paradise' for a year (Cuba).  If you think that way of life is better you might want to re think your revolution.  We have it made here and very lucky in our free rights.
Oh Dutchy.  I have lived and fought overseas.  I have travelled to many beautiful countries.  There is no place better than Oz.  Our land, our people and our freedom is unsurpassed, IMHO. A light-hearted dig at out pollies is one freedom we should, surely, always be able to have. Viva taking the piss. ;D
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Offline ohb1

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Re: NSW National Parks - Fossicking Policy is out
« Reply #24 on: December 21, 2017, 14:20 »
The new Heritage act came into law in November. I don’t remember if that was for Vic or Australia wide. It should be in Resources somewhere.
November ... was Victoria Rwork

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