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Author Topic:  Trash talking the xp deus  (Read 1310 times)

Offline Tommy Cash

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Trash talking the xp deus
« on: September 30, 2016, 01:40 »
Hey guys if you are like me you'd realise that the most important thing in this detecting game is trust. I've gotten to the point where I can say with certainty that I've never had a detector that I can trust as much as the xp deus. Which is why I find it weird when people say the tid isn't accurate, I think this comes from too many guys in Australia running them at 18khz because the guys in Europe and the UK hunt mainly in this frequency. This coupled with the fact that target id norm is set for 18khz means that a lot of Australian are using this frequency. But the thing is our targets aren't the same, we are hunting for high conductors not thin hammered coins. I'm going to share with you my favourite program, it is bloody simple to use and if you are a goldie hunter, you won't look back. Go to GMP program - now change it to run at 12khz then save it in a slot - Simple. You get good depth, stable id and fast enough reactivity to find anything we hunt over here. Also I used a tone machine for years where a high tone meant gold coin - in this program a 50c will come in at 71 and be a mid tone Goldies and predecs are always high,  
Now lets talk trash.

IRON
One of the first things I noticed picking up the Deus was it made a high tone for round iron bottle caps. Now coming from a sovereign and Excal background this was new to me as those machines null on iron and scratch on bottle caps. But there are some easy ways to never dig another bottle cap again with the Deus.

The first trick is to walk the coil back. Swing the coil back from the target slightly and from side to side. In my GMP 12khz program you will now hear an iron grunt as it moves to its edge of detection.

Trick 2 - wave it like a whip. If you swing your Xp Deus at fast speeds over the iron bottle cap it will break up, whereas a coin won't.

Trick 3 - Remember our GMP program grab it and change its frequency to 4khz then save it next to your GMP 12khz program as BT Check. On my machine I have my GMP 12khz  at slot 12 and my BT Check as 13. Now you have a program to tell you if something is a iron/steel bottle top. In my program bottle tops come up in the high 80's and early nineties well away from the goldie range of 80-83 so I don't know why you'd dig them anyway, but every now and then you find a crusty one that throws up multiple numbers around the good zone. Now it's a simple matter of switching programs - do the numbers go up or stay the same - if yes it's a bottle cap, if they go down its a high conductive target.


ALUMINIUM

The main way to not dig a lot of trash is to keep everything you do consistent. This means having the same swing speed always. A squashed sideways aluminium bottle top not only sounds different from a coin at the same depth, once you are experienced you will notice the difference in its sizing, as well by the way the coil registers the target as it passes over it back and forth. Try to make your passes small as possible. In the past I knew this technique as the sovereign wiggle. It's amazing how the numbers accuracy improves when you are tight on the target.

Does it say 80 or 81 - its a two dollar coin. Does it say 82/83 its a one dollar. Did you see 79 come in at all - its an aluminium bottle top, what about 84 or 85 another bottle top. The program I run is so accurate for shallow goldies that if you notched out 80-83 you would never dig another gold coin again. But you would still dig a ton of aluminium bottle caps - that should tell you something.

What amazed me about the Deus was seeing how the tid responded to a round Old No7 top, now these are almost the achilles heel of my system and I admit quite a few come in at the 81 number, but once you get good then sizing comes into play.  I flipped the same cap over and it now read 85- coming from the sovereign this blew my mind how sensitive this machine is that's four numbers higher on the same bottle top!  I went out the other day with a guy who had never metal detected I had my Excal and over 5 years experience he had my Xp Deus, my programs and about 5minutes of instructions, needless  to say he out hunted me hard because my machine was fooled by 1c and 2c and aluminium bottle caps.
More to come ......                

Linkback: http://forum.kimbucktwo.com/index.php?topic=30324.0
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 23:34 by Tommy Cash »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
  • Oldest find: 1838 Sixpence
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Offline Clegy

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #1 on: September 30, 2016, 08:00 »
WOW another person that likes the lower frequencies! Awesome.

Great tips mate, thanks for that.

Your dead right that if a target shows a certain TID you just walk off, I have tested the theory many times and if it jumps out of that small window then you can leave it with confidence.

10 cent coin and Pull tab are almost identical, but that one little bleep off the TID and that pull tab gives itself up every time. As do bottle tops with the little iron Buzz at the edges as you mentioned.

Again Nice tips, Thanks.

Clegy



  • Detector(s) owned/used: Used, 705 Own XP Deus WS4 9,11 Inch coils, C-Scope CS4PI, Tesoro Umax, GPX 5000
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Offline rocketaroo

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #2 on: September 30, 2016, 09:04 »
I will definitely test your settings, thanks for sharing. I use 18khz, because I find it is much less affected by EMI, secondly it seems to hit harder on thrips. I do dig aluminium caps, for fear of missing silver. But, I could just as easily ignore 89 to 91, and miss them. I usually get the grunt on steel caps, dont dig many at all. So many ways to configure the Deus, its taken me 6 months to feel confident with it...but then I read a thread like this....and start to consider another direction it can take me.

Offline Ramjet

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2016, 09:47 »
I run mostly on 12kHz. I think mostly because that is what most of the pre set programs are on.  ;)
I think I dig so many bottle tops because I don't trust myself. I have tried the "walk back" of the coil after Clegy showed me how he does it but to me it seems inconsistent. Probably just me. I know an 87 is a bottle top but I dig them anyway, just in case. 

I will definitely the same program on a lower frequency as Tommy suggests and I agree with the whip motion to stabilize the TID numbers. On a broader swing they can jump up and down a couple of numbers but as you narrow the swing the numbers become rock steady.

Good post Tommy, thank you.  
  • Detector(s) owned/used: XP Deus, Garrett At Pro, Ace 250. CTX 3030. Aldi for the grandkids and an old mid 70's wall hanger.
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Touch the frog.


Offline rocketaroo

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2016, 10:10 »
I also set GB to manual 85, that is for beach and turf. I run sens at 94, and use full tones. Have applied these changes to your 12khz GMP, and lowered descrim to 3. I will test it against my normal settings, and report back.

Offline John-au

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2016, 10:49 »
Looking at your id numbers I think you are not using id norm, is this correct and if so can your program be used with id norm on if the 18KHz ids are substituted?   
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Minelab XT 17000 (traded) Minelab Quattro MP (mainly with Joey coil), Garrett Ace 250 and Garrett pro pinpointer, GPX 5000, XP Deus & Land or Sea pin pointer
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Offline rocketaroo

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #6 on: September 30, 2016, 12:56 »
I have now set it to ID norm, shouldave done that early on. Too windy here today :(

Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2016, 13:04 »
Don't set it to id norm.  You can't use Bottle Top Check as they are different frequencies. ID norm shoves all your programs into 18khz.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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Offline maat

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #8 on: September 30, 2016, 14:45 »
nice post tommy, 
all of my personal programs are run in 7~kh range. Happy to post them up if anyone would like to try them. 
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Offline rocketaroo

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #9 on: September 30, 2016, 15:08 »
oh ok ;)

Offline maat

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2016, 00:16 »
disregard
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 00:25 by maat »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: -minelab gt16000 -xp deus 13"x11" coil - garrett pin pointer
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Offline Clegy

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2016, 05:44 »
Have to say I have become a 8-12 KHZ Nut and love the lower frequencies for pinging coins especially.

I don't like the id norm, the 705 had a feature like that and it tends to cram everything up high. In normal mode there is a nice spread to the TID and tones and way more accurate.

By leaving it off you'll learn the TID Numbers eventually, but let the audio do a lot of the lifting as well. TID for me is a second check on the target rather than a primary ID method.

I am a full tone addict, and change all my programs to Full tones, helps so much with finding targets hidden in crap that the TID Number just can't keep up with. That High tone will shine through, but the TID may be a bit dodgey due to other targets close by.

What works best for you is the best approach as we all have different ways of detecting and different styles. 

Might start a thread so we can all swap a few programs and settings.

Happy Hunting

Clegy
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Used, 705 Own XP Deus WS4 9,11 Inch coils, C-Scope CS4PI, Tesoro Umax, GPX 5000
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Offline Ramjet

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2016, 06:55 »
I am dig mostly by tone. The TID is just a back up that I glance at and all my programs are full tone.
I did start up a "programs and settings" topic a while back.  http://forum.kimbucktwo.com/index.php?topic=28982.msg292846#msg29284
  • Detector(s) owned/used: XP Deus, Garrett At Pro, Ace 250. CTX 3030. Aldi for the grandkids and an old mid 70's wall hanger.
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Offline tinpan

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2016, 11:58 »
 Hi  So what's worth more a silver florin  or a great depression  wireware egg holder?   Tp
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Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2016, 14:07 »
It's funny when two people continents apart have the same program and come to it independently. I just read on page 175 of Andy Sabich's book. Tom Redmayne found a medieval silver bar mount - his setting, modified GMP changed to 11.7 khz and disc set at 5 rather than 6.8. I haven't changed the disc but this is essentially my go to program for most things. What would be handy if someone with the skillls would make a program specifically for aussie coins - ie tone breaks for 5c,10c,20c, 50c and $1 and $2 together. Also maybe include an iron bleed over program that gives you an iron grunt from 98 - 99 - no one finds any good non-iron target above 97 when running at 12khz.

Just found this on page 101 which confirms my thinking and should convert you id normers. It's about U.S but the facts holds for OZ as well.
The optimal frequency for coin hunting in the U.S has proven to be either 8khz or 12 khz. The 18 khz is preferred when looking for low to medium conductivity targets (such as what hunters in England and Europe are searching for.)......It is not as sensitive to the higher conductive targets, such as silver or copper coins which make up the bulk of what U.S coin hunters are seeking.
Our cupro-nickel coins are still high conductors so the principal applies for OZ as well (let alone our old silver and copper coins.)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 18:51 by Tommy Cash »
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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Offline John-au

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2016, 17:32 »
It's funny when two people continents apart have the same program and come to it independently. I just read on page 175 of Andy Sabich's book. Tom Redmayne found a medieval silver bar mount - his setting, modified GMP changed to 11.7 khz and disc set at 5 rather than 6.8. I haven't changed the disc but this is essentially my go to program for most things. What would be handy if someone with the skillls would make a program specifically for aussie coins - ie tone breaks for 5c,10c,20c, 50c and $1 and $2 together. Also maybe include an iron bleed over program that gives you an iron grunt from 98 - 99 - no one finds any good non-iron target above 97 when running at 12khz.

Just found this on page 101 which confirms my thinking and should convert you id normers. It's about U.S but the facts holds for OZ as well.
The optimal frequency for coin hunting in the U.S have proven to be either 8khz or 12 khz. The 18 khz is preferred when looking for low to medium conductivity targets (such as what hunters in England and Europe are searching for.)......It is not as sensitive to the higher conductive targets, such as silver or copper coins which make up the bulk of what U.S coin hunters are seeking.
Our cupro-nickel coins are still high conductors so the principal applies for OZ as well (let alone our old silver and copper coins.)
The program on page 103 might be a starting point, I have changed things a bit like having discrimination set at 73 and id normal to see how it worked on 20 cent and up but haven't tried it to see how it goes as I have been chasing predecimals with some other programs.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Minelab XT 17000 (traded) Minelab Quattro MP (mainly with Joey coil), Garrett Ace 250 and Garrett pro pinpointer, GPX 5000, XP Deus & Land or Sea pin pointer
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Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2016, 18:49 »
If you set discrimination at 73 wouldn't you miss all coins up to and including the 50c, which comes in at 71?
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2016, 18:54 »
Oh I see your using id normal, and I'm talking about 12khz programs. 
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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Offline Ramjet

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2016, 19:00 »
Tommy I must thank you for the tip on using a 4 khz program to sort out the bottle caps. Both rocketaroo and I copied our favourite programs to the slot next to it and made it 4 khz. It worked a treat. I will certainly dig less bottle tops now.
Interesting on the comment above about 2 people coming to the same program seperately. Both Rocket and I used different methods, him hunting and making changes as he went and I buried test coins in my yard and experimented. When we compared our chosen programs they are remarkably similar. So your BT program seems to work on any program.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: XP Deus, Garrett At Pro, Ace 250. CTX 3030. Aldi for the grandkids and an old mid 70's wall hanger.
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Offline rocketaroo

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2016, 19:05 »
yep, thanks for the BC check tip. Most of the targets were shallow, and hitting well....a 4khz check sorted the caps :)

Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2016, 22:00 »
Glad to hear it helped. Yes it works on almost everyone's settings unless you're using the dreaded id norm ????
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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Offline OL 56

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2016, 17:28 »
Excellent post TC, though not a user it makes perfect sense to me and has probably helped in making future decisions, thanks for demystifying the XP, something that shied me away, I guess you can teach an old dog new tricks......cheers Colin.
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Offline Tommy Cash

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Re: Trash talking the xp deus
« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2016, 01:51 »
Glad to help OL 56. My hope was that not only can I help clear things up for some guys with the Deus but that I might encourage a few old forumites over to the  Dark Side of foreign machine ownership lol.
  • Detector(s) owned/used: Detector- Minelab Sovereign Elite, 15" WOT - awaiting the ressurection. Minelab Excal 1000 -blue headphone beauty, Anderson travel shaft, 1600mh Battery. XP DEUS. Makro pinpointer. Digging Tools- Lesche. Mirage diving knife. Beach Scoop - Stavr
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xx
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Last post January 12, 2013, 22:57
by sprinter
 

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